Q – At home in Argentina, you are considered
the new hero of chamamé, the music
‘with the deepest swing in Argentina’. What exactly is chamamé?
A:
I am just
one of the representatives of the new generation of this tradition, one of
many, perhaps the one that has travelled the furthest abroad playing this genre
of music. Chamamé is the folk music that is widely
representative of the whole of the northeast of Argentina. It is a world of
sound where many elements come together, from the encounter of Jesuit monks
with indigenous Guaraní people, the mestizo population, some elements from the
African world too from slaves who came to Argentina via Peru, and finally
European immigrants, who brought with them the accordion, an instrument that
has travelled to so many places in the world. From the coming together of these
different strands of influences has emerged a tradition and a sound that we
today call ‘chamamé’. Traditionally it was played
with accordion and guitar, later more instruments were added, like the violin, vocals,
often as duet singing, and not to forget that it is a dance music. Today many
many ways of playing it exist, both in its instrumental and its vocal forms.
Q – You have become famous in Argentina as the presenter of a TV program
that explores rural musical traditions – is there a need for roots music in
Argentina?
A:
It’s
been 30 years since I have been playing music, and only 8 years that I do this
TV programme called Pequenos Universos
(Small Universes). It can be seen on the web on the website of ‘Canal
Encuentro’. In these 8 years I made more than 70 journeys for the programme,
that is to say more than 70 documentary episodes, in all of which the idea is
to show the oral transmission of uninterrupted traditions. At first we criss-crossed
Argentina from top to bottom, and then also travelled through neighbouring
countries, like Paraguy, Uruguay, Bolivia and Chile.
When talking
about roots, the truth is that our roots are constantly present, they have
never disappeared. What the programme tries to show, is that there is a lot
more roots music in this country than we think, there is a lot more diversity
than we think, and all these diverse music styles are a lot more complex than
we think, too. The programme is simply trying to show off all this richness,
all these treasures right there in front of us. In many places of the world diversity
is now a problem, as we can see in today’s media, there are walls going up in
many places, all caused by deep ignorance of the value of diversity. Our
programme tries to look at diversity not as a problem but as a treasure. So the
programme is not looking at whether there is a need for it or not, but it’s
simply to show the great diversity we have in our culture.
It may
be that it’s the music without roots that takes up the most space in today’s
media and sounds mostly out of our radios, but still, music with roots
connected to our culture is still very present in the everyday of our lives. In
album releases, in local fiestas and many daily activities – roots music is not
a museum piece but very alive and still very present in our lives.
Q – Most people associate Argentina with the tango and the bandoneon (or
squeeze box), and you have a different tradition and instrument – can you
describe this to your UK audience?
A:
That’s
a very interesting question. The world associates tango with Argentina because
it’s the most international music to come out of the country. It was connected
to the golden era of Argentine cinema, and these films were very widely watched
all over the world, and their sound came very much from the culture of tango.
But the bandoneon is not an instrument that has only been involved in tango, it
also plays an important role in chamamé and
in many other folk traditions all over Argentina. Some big bandoneon
personalities come from the tango, but there are also many in chamamé, like Cocomarola, Abitbol,
Riera, Flores… all of them great bandoneon players. In the music of the north
of Argentina, the region of Salta, the bandoneon is also a key instrument,
there are some well known and proud figures of this music, like Dino Saluzzi.
So there are lots of connections between bandoneon and tango, but the
instrument itself really is key in the development of many other folk
traditions around the country.
Both
the bandoneon and the accordion are used in chamamé –
they are similar instruments, although the accordion has a broader palette of
sound colours. Chamamé is a rural music, the music of
farmers and labourers, of people who work with livestock, of people who dance.
These rural landscapes are regions of subtropical climate and big rivers with
their own complex cultural mix where the various elements mentioned earlier
come together.
On the other
hand, tango is an urban tradition, from the city of Buenos Aires, a big harbour
city, and although the bandoneon has been a key instrument, the elements that
come together are totally different and the historical and their geographical
context is totally different too. Also, chamamé and
most of our folk traditions are based on a rhythm of 6/8 or3/4, while tango is
binary, with a rhythm of 2/4 or 4/4.
Q – You are of Ukrainian heritage. How has
this informed your music?
A:
The
province of Misiones received large numbers of European immigrants in the late
19th and early 20th centuries - Ukrainians, Polish, Germans, Volga-Germans,
Russians, Swedish… Among all these families arrived my grandparents, the
parents of my mother and the parents of my father, and they settled in the town
of Apóstoles, which is where I was born. So in addition to all the influences
that already existed before the immigrants arrived (Guaraní, Criollo, and influences
from over the border with Paraguay and Southern Brazil) now appeared these new colours
to add themselves to the existing palette. The rhythm of chamamé was predominant in
this area, but now suddenly other rhythms appeared, like rural polkas,
shottish, waltzes. So at one point all these new elements got added to an
existing world of sound, and this is also what happens with my music. My music contains
all these elements existing alongside
each other, in a very spontaneous, natural way, without any kind of conflict.
There is no sense that one influence is more important or better than another –
where I was born all these influences were simply around me.
There
were the more local, criollo roots of early chamamé, and there were the traditions that the immigrants brought
with them, which over the next 100 years took on their own distinct local
colour. This particular Ukrainian music now sounds totally different and has a
totally different aesthetic than any other Ukrainian music, wherever you might
find it in the world. You won’t find this sound in other places where Ukrainian
immigrants settled, not in Canada, nor in Brazil or the USA. The fusion that took
place in Misiones is totally unique to that place, and this is reflected in my
music.
There
are other elements too that are connected to the Ukrainian culture but have not
necessarily something to do with music or aesthetics, for example a sense of hope,
flexibility, a capacity to adapt… these are all things are reflected in a very
subtle manner in my music too. I think the most important being a sense of
hope, and also celebration… celebration in a sense not to be confused with the
spectacle of a performance or a party.
Q – Where is your home town and how does it influence your music?
A:
I was
born in Apóstoles, in Misiones, a wedge of land between Argentina, Brazil and
Paraguay. It is a very intense land of red earth and dense jungle. Well, there
is much less jungle there now than there was before, but it’s a subtropical
place, with many mountains, trees and big rivers, rivers that are red coloured
from the red earth they carry, the river Parana flowing towards the river
Urugyay which again flows towards the south of Brazil. It’s a region of a many
different cultures superimposed on each other, which have shaped a new, unique
culture: the Mbuya-Guaraní, the Criollos, the Uruguayans, the Brazilians, and
obviously the immigrants from Europe that started arriving at the end of the 19th
century. That’s where I come from. A place where in summer, during the months
of January and February, the temperature rises to more than 45 degrees… it’s a
very intense place because of all these elements, and many more.
It is where
yerba mate grows, and many years back I made an album called ‘Tareferos de mis
Pagos’, an album dedicated to the mate harvest and its labourers. Mate is a
herb that is drunk as an infusion by everybody in Argentina, across all ages,
children, adults and old people, and across all social classes too, but it only
grows in this one region of Argentina, and a part of Uruguay. It’s almost a
mythical plant, used by the Guaraní, then adopted by the Jesuits, and today
it’s very well known and used all over Argentina and in neighbouring countries
too, but it only grows in this one region where I come from.
Q – Are there any musicians from around the world you would like to
collaborate with, and why?
A:
I’d
like to collaborate with lots of them! With electronic music artists, with
pianists, with orchestras, with string quartets, with accordion players… My
interest lies in both exploring ways and tools for building bridges of
connection between worlds you thought there could not be a connection with, as
well as further exploring my own tradition of the music from where I come from.
I would
not want to name one specific musician I would like to work with, but simply
build relationships with others where we can throw ideas at each other,
challenge each other and move something forward. I am always very open,
thinking, researching and studying other musical worlds in order to discover
where the bridges might lie. And surely at some point possibilities and
crossings will appear, though at the moment I am in a phase where I have still
a lot to do and to show that comes from
my own background and my own music – at some later point I’m sure I will come
to focus more on the crossroads that may appear on the path. I sometimes think
about an album with lots of international guests where we could work on these
ideas, say flamenco or a jazz musicians, wind or string ensembles, percussion,
electronics… all in one single album. Just another idea that goes around in my
head and hopefully one day there will be the time, and the funding to take such
a project forward. In the meantime I keep doing what is realistically possible.
Q – Can
you introduce us to the musicians of your ensemble?
A:
The
trio on this tour is made up of Pablo Farhat, who comes from the province of
Santiago del Estero, which is a very traditional province, and he is a very
versatile violinist fluent in both the studied, academic side of music, and at
the same time he has a great knowledge of the oral traditions of roots music of
Argentina, and he can very well combine these two worlds, these two
disciplines, the one of oral transmission of roots music and the academic,
written down aspect of music. He has a great skill in improvising and in
immersing himself into the sound world of my music - he is a really great
violinist and I’m really happy to be able to do this tour with him.
The
other musician in the trio is Marcos Villalba, a percussionist and guitarist
with whom I have been working for a very long time. He comes from a family of
musicians, and I have also worked with his brothers Gabriel and Sebastian (who
has sung on most of my records, and has been on many international tours
before.) Marcos is his younger brother and he is a very very talented
percussionist, and we have been working together for a many years - he has a
great power and drive. I think he is one of the best cajoneros in the world –
cajon is an instrument from Peru, that is also used in flamenco and many other
traditions, a widely used instrument nowadays – and he is for me one of the very best players
in the world. He also plays the guitar and sometimes sings as well.
I think
this trio format really is very powerful and it’s going to sound great on this
tour.
Q – What’s next for Chango Spasiuk?
A:
‘Pynandí’
was my last international album, but since then I have released two more albums
in Argentina: one recorded live in the Teatro Colon, called ‘Tierra Colorada en
el Teatro Colon’, which is the most famous theatre in Argentina, for opera and classical
music. We recorded a live album and DVD there, which hasn’t been released
internationally yet. And only a couple of months ago another album was released
in Argentina featuring a less well known side of my work, which is as composer
of film music. Over the past 15 years I have worked on many Argentine film
productions, with many different directors, so this album features my work for
cinema, for documentaries, short films and TV. It’s an album with 16 tracks
showing off this creative side of me – there is a lot of piano as I have worked
with many pianists in this context, and there are many different musical
textures - it’s called ‘Otras Musicas’.
It’s only been released in Argentina although I am looking at the possibility
of an online release for the rest of the world - although there might not be a
physical release people elsewhere in the world can download the album and
listen to it. Back in Argentina I am working on promoting this film music album
at the moment, and thinking about a new studio album for the next year that
would once again have more of an international reach. The
tour is not going to focus on any particular album though - it will present a
broad range of my compositions and my way of interpreting the tradition of chamamé.
Sending greetings and hugs to
everyone and looking very much forward to coming to visit you soon!
